Freethought Association Minutes, April 28, 2004, #160
Our Annual
Board Meeting will be held at the Seavers' house in Allendale
on May 2, from 9AM- 1PM. Non- board members are welcome to attend.
On May 8,
from 2PM- 5:30PM in Detroit, Michigan a debate will be held with
the title: “Does God Not Exist?” It is presented by
by the Tawheed Institute of NY & Young Muslims Association
of Michigan. Hassanain Rajabli and Michael Corey will present
the theist side, while Richard Carrier and Dan Barker (of the
Freedom From Religion Foundation) will debate on the atheist side..
This will be held at the Holiday Inn- Fairlane Dearborn, 5801
Southfield Service Drive (at Ford Road), tel. #: 313-336-3340.
Admission is $20.
May 9, starting
at 7PM, is the next Freethought Movie Night, hosted by Jason Pittman.For
location and details call 616-634-2471 or contact Jason via e-mail
at jpittman@backpacker.com.
May 12 is
the date for our next regular meeting. It will be presented by
Dr. Rabbi Sherwin Wine, founder of the Society for Humanistic
Judaism, 2003 Humanist of the Year, author of Humanistic Judaism,
Judaism Beyond God, Celebration and Staying Sane in a Crazy World.
His presentation to our group will take in the ideas in the last-mentioned
book: “Staying Sane in a Crazy World: How to live your life
as a freethinker.”
May 23rd is
the the next Freethought Movie Night (see above for more info).
Freethought
101 will be the topic for our May 26 meeting. Bill Van Oosterhout
and Board member, Robert Collins, PhD, will be our presenters.
Skipping ahead
to July- we remind you of the Annual Freethought Picnic, July
10 from 12PM- 5PM at Johnson Park (near Wilson and 28th St.).
Bring a beverage, place setting, and a dish to pass (if you would
like to bring along recreational activity items that is welcome
too). Coordinated by Secretary, Charles LaRue.
Please visit
our updated website: www.freethoughtassociation.com <http://www.freethoughtassociation.com/>
for further information, questions, concerns, to see the complete
calendar of events and topics, find links to related sites, peruse
the archives of past meeting minutes, join our e-mail discussion
group and many, many more things of interest to freethinkers.
FAoWM members
Josh and Jennifer will be playing music at the next Fountain Street
Church service in G.R. They played together at our Freethought
& the Arts special meeting.
Dr. Gregory
Forbes will be conducting a canoe trip next month. Check the website
for more information as it becomes available.
Our meeting
topic this time was “If We Reverse Human Aging, What Happens?”
Michael Fossel, MD, PhD, was our presenter for this intriguing
topic question. Dr. Fossel is the MSU Clinical Professor of Medicine
and an attending physician in the St. Mary's Hospital emergency
room in Grand Rapids. He is the author of the book Reversing Human
Aging and has another book due out this summer called Cells, Aging,
and Human Disease, Oxford Press, '04. He is also the retired head
of the Journal of Anti- Aging Medicine. When FAoWM Chairman, Jeff
Seaver went out to his house one afternoon, he discovered a home
reflecting Fossel's eclectic interests and somewhat eccentric
ways. There were half- finished paintings on the walls, a first
picture of his children (chromosomes), a maze in his basement,
built- in secret passageways and a source of pride for him: his
magnificent garden, among other things. He additionally has a
wealth of fascinating and unique stories, anecdotes and recollections
from his life, well lived.
It is not
difficult to see how such a man, so highly invested in life and
so deeply involved in the activities of living fully, and with
no belief in an afterlife or superintending entity, would be so
devoted to prolonging a vibrant life far beyond its current limits.
Dr. Fossel has seen close up and personally the ravages of age
when it afflicts children, leaving them to die chronologically
young, of “old age” diseases, in the mercifully rare
but horrific condition known as progeria.
Dr. Fossel
contends that science may soon be able to slow, stop, or even
reverse the aging process in humans. He believes that within the
next two decades we will extend the healthy human life span indefinitely
and in so doing, alter human culture forever. It is these arresting
thoughts that we explored this night. He gave a similar talk to
our group once that ended with the thoughts that this presentation
took up.
Existing as
material beings, Dr. Fossel does not speak of infinite life spans...but
he does address indefinite ones, where longevity is uncertain
and frankly unknown. Likewise unknown are the social consequences
of extended life spans, but he thinks they are likely to be explosive,
triggering massive social changes as we move on into this currently
uncharted territory.
He brought
with him a power point presentation that he had used in a different
sort of address to another audience. Since not all elements of
it were germane to our discussion, he used it more as a springboard
for a more free form discussion. After a fairly brisk talk on
the intrinsic elements of cellular senescence and current research
on aging, we delved into the discussion portion regarding the
implications of human lifespans no longer constrained to a top
end of only a little over a century.
His first
visuals regarded the oldest recorded myth of humankind that survives:
that of the myth of Gilgamesh, where some 4,000 years ago people
were looking to extend their lifespans significantly. The Epic
of Gilgamesh examines several mythic themes that would be repeated
in subsequent stories, including the Deluge, long before the biblical
tales were wrought. The story Dr. Fossel talked about from the
Epic was one where a plant is revealed to Gilgamesh by Utnapish
in an almost Promethean fashion, that would restore youth to he
who finds it.
While human
dreams of eternal youth or a significant prolongation of vigor
probably go back to the point where humans first realized their
own mortality, there has really been little done to actually make
these dreams and myths a reality. The most significant extension
of lifespans and quality of life in general has come about from
a large scale employment of good hygiene, antiseptics and an understanding
of Germ Theory, which has produced a threefold mean lifespan increase.
Modern medicine, medical technology and techniques have improved
the likelihood of living longer, fuller lives for those whom it
is available for on the planet. But it wasn't until more recent
times that we could look beyond merely increasing longevity to
a point closer to the current maximum human lifespan. So far,
the maximum lifespan cap has remained consistent with no effective
interventions. But soon, Dr. Fossel asserted, we will truly be
faced with all that results from when people live well beyond
the century mark but still retain the youthfulness of those in
their 20's.
Dr. Fossel
spoke of the relatively prosaic means that have been used to extend
lifespans from breeding, diet and caloric restriction to even
just “fastening your seatbelt.” More intensive approaches
involve genetic intervention and alteration and dealing with the
wear and tear that accumulates during cell senescence, triggered
when the telomere ends shorten on chromosomes with each division.
The enzyme telomerase can be introduced to replace the segments
of the telomeres above the crucial threshold, maintaining their
length and mitigating the negative effects of cell division.
Dr. Fossel
explained that genes are the same in all parts of the body but
just expressed differently for different protein sequence needs.
The gene expression in aging is the expression of a different
pattern. He also told us that somatic cells show the aging pattern
but germ cells do not. In speaking of cellular turnover, he said
that its rate is critical to the percentage of damage in the pool
of available molecules in the body. He also discussed Free Radical
damage that occurs as a by- product during normal cell chemistry
and that rapidly oxidize other molecules they encounter. One problem
is when the mitochondria, the power plant of the cell, leaks with
age. Sequestering free radicals helps to stem this and other organelle
dysfunction. He discussed ATP (adenosine triphosphate) as the
“monetary exchange system of cells.” It is found in
all cells and drives thousands of biological processes required
in a living being and in animals, and is involved in the synthesis
of complex molecules. He spoke of the role of endothelial cells
in various negative expression patterns that result in Alzheimer's
disease, osteoporosis, heart diseases, etc. and is currently the
primary cause of death. Reversing the patterns in these cells
could therefore remove these “old age” afflictions.
There is a
frustrating slowness to bring the technologies to trial due in
part, Fossel believes, because they are not part of mainsteam
theory. He quipped that old theories never die; their proponents
do. It has now been shown, he claims, that we can reverse aging
in cells and tissues. In skin cells, the shape, function and gene
pattern of expression has been changed to that of a fully interdigitated,
youthful one that does not show damage over time. Even when older
tissues have been implanted in test animals, where they function
poorly, when telomerase is used to reset the pattern of gene expression,
it exhibits youthfulness and healthy function. The techniques
can be used to undercut the pathology, rather than replacing the
“parts” as they age. This is why he dislikes the oft-used
automobile example for analogy to biological aging. Mechanical
parts that wear out can replaced as we now do hip joint, heart
valve and other body part replacements, but the techniques Fossel
spoke of involve reseting the gene expression itself so that the
whole body is one of youthful expression, rather than putting
newer parts in an aging senescent system.
The main reason
he gave for his intense interest in anti-aging research is simply
because he dislikes suffering and sees the aging process as the
chief cause of suffering. All the diseases and afflictions of
the body are symptoms of the aging process or cellular processes
that become dysfunctional in the same pattern as seen in chronological
aging. So the question became for him not how to prevent heart
disease, say, or some other specific malady, but how to go after
the root cause of all the hydra- limbed disorders; aging itself.
The social
changes that might occur once lifespans are indefinite were wide
ranging in Dr. Fossel's speculations. Health premiums for insurance
that are now based on age and can be determined by actuaries would
be thrown out of kilter. When would social security benefits kick
in? Would the matrimonial phrase “til death do us part”
have the same solemnity when a person who is chronologically 65,
but has the youthful mind and body of a 20 year old has made those
vows? How much is the set of behaviors that go along with maturity
based upon just being too tired to exhibit the wildness of adolescence?
How would family dynamics play out? People could live decades
before starting a family and women who now make choices between
raising children or career building could do both. With menopause
and the increased risks of birth defects delayed indefinitely,
how would this factor in regarding postponing child rearing? Those
in power would not fade away via attrition and no one could tell
if the young person going after a job is chronologically a youth,
or an octogenarian. What about pharmaceuticals? Would the vastly
reduced need for the pills to mitigate the physiological slings
and arrows of life result in an upheaval in the system? Companies
that manufacture telomerase and other related industries, could
do quite well, however. Dr. Fossel believes that the techniques
would, counter- intuitively, be quite reasonable as to cost and
for most Americans be extremely affordable. But he concedes, having
traveled extensively, that what is easily accessed by those in
wealthier nations is still out of reach for those in impoverished
lands.
Our presenter
asserted that one problem in getting this research to becoming
a viable, available technique, is that there are two camps with
little mutual understanding between them. There are those who
look at the pathology but have little comprehension of the details
of the the gene's contribution, and, conversely, those who are
well versed in genetics but have a paucity of knowledge regarding
pathology. They tend to look past each other and target the wrong
things, he contends.
For now, the
basics are all that is available. Nutrition, vitamins and dietary
fads are “more like religion than science,” Dr. Fossel
noted. One proven way to extend life is by strict dietary restriction,
but this is unpopular with most people. Some other techniques
that are somewhat effective but likewise not thrilling for many
to contemplate bring up the decision: do you want to live a longer
life with more privation, or a shorter one of not wanting?
An obvious
offshoot of a large number of people having indefinite lifespans--
especially if they are longer in young bodies-- is overpopulation.
Dr. Fossel noted that any time in history where there was a significant
population increase, other factors came into play to offset this.
Populations increase but then plateau; it isn't open- ended. Another
possibility is increased terrorism if there is a dichotomy between
the haves and have nots for such an enviable, and powerful possession:
indefinite youth. Religion would probably factor in as well. Power
hierarchies would be potentially even more unwieldy.
There are
some currently widely available things one can take with dubious
benefits for more radical claims but with proven efficacy for
other, lesser health concerns. But, noting the obvious but often
overlooked distillation of factors, Dr. Fossel asked why not take
something that almost certainly will have a positive effect in
staving off some problems and then possibly get as a side benefit,
the putative, more extreme benefit as well. It's a win either
way.
We discussed
how extreme life extension would effect evolution, stability vs
fitness as to survivability of a species, the long developmental
process already in place for humans and how selection works differently
on organisms depending upon the span of their life. Fossel asked
rhetorically why research is driven more by already established
assumptions, which retard more exciting advances in anti-aging
techniques. Why not generate more data to test? He said that the
gifted minds who were right most of the time assumed they were
always correct, so the vision for possibilities becomes more myopic.
We ended by
talking about his run in with Cocoa the gorilla, when he was studying
language in apes-- particularly the employment of sign language
with non-human primates. He has many interesting anecdotes and
observations in this area as well and may at some future date
give a talk on these ideas to our group.
Secretary:
Charles LaRue.
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