|
Freethought
Association of West Michigan
Meeting Minutes for September 11, 2002; #123
An addition
to our calendar of topics is the January 8, 2003 presentation
by Dr. Gregory Forbes on "Intelligent Design; Grasping for
Straws in the New Millennium- A Presentation of the Many Unintelligent
Designs in Nature." Dr. Forbes is a FAoWM member and well
qualified to speak on this topic, being a professor of biological
sciences at G.R.C.C., Education Director of the Michigan Evolution
Education Initiative and Director of the Institute for Evolution
Education.
Our quarterly
financial statement was shown on our bulletin. A reminder was
made that we are entirely supported by the donations of our members
for all expenses, including but not limited to special guest speaker
fees, equipment and rental fees for our meeting space and mailings
for special events.
Jeff announced
that he was looking for topic and speaker ideas. Volunteers from
our group to head up discussions are encouraged or if you know
someone you can contact or pass along for us to make contact with,
this would be appreciated.
Our next meeting
will be on September 25. The topic will be "An Evolutionary
Approach to Critical Thinking" and will be presented by Ron
Palmer.
Geoffrey Saint
informed us of two alarming bills. One is a freedom of speech
act for houses of worship (HR 2357) and the other, the "Brightline"
(HR 2391), would allow churches to use 20% of their funds to promote
specific political candidates or oppose others while still retaining
a tax exempt status. As Saint pointed out, freedom of speech is
already a Constitutional guarantee, but these bills are intended
to circumvent barriers to endorsements of political candidates,
keep accountability of church funds hidden, limit the scope of
investigation into the use of church monies and further erode
the wall of separation between State and Church. Surprisingly,
77% of clergy said "no" to this bill, even though most
identified themselves as "evangelical" Christians, perhaps
realizing that separation of Church & State is to the good
of BOTH, just as mixing of the two is to the detriment of both.
It will come as some surprise to many that a staunch ally in this
fight against these bills is the Interfaith Alliance. For more
information on these bills and what you can do to help deter passage
of them or on the Interfaith Alliance itself, visit their website
at www.interfaithalliance.org.
Dirk Nebbeling
announced that he is offering a short course on Humanism during
the 5 Wednesdays in October. It will be held at Fountain Street
Church. An AHA and FaoWM member, Nebbeling has been highly involved
in the Humanist movement and approach to life for much of his
life. The textbook for the course will be Lloyd and Mary Morain's
book, Humanism as the Next Step. He passed around a sign up slip
for those interested in attending and encouraged prospective attendees
to purchase the book in advance of the course.
Jeff announced
that there is actually a secular Islamic group that some members
might be interested in checking out. The website is info@secularislam.org.
This meeting
was on the one- year anniversary date of the attacks on the World
Trade Center, the Pentagon, and an attempt on another significant
American site, by the Islamic Fundamentalist Al Qaeda terrorist
network. Our topic for this meeting, "The World of Islam",
therefore had a special significance. Our presenter for this topic
was Mustafa Eissa of the Islamic Center of West Michigan.
Mr. Eissa
began by trying to dispel the many errors of interpretation, as
he sees it, with Western understanding of Islam. He started off
by saying that Islam means "peace" and that correct
practice of this faith is counter to the violence associated with
it popularly. Furthermore, the perception of Islam as a faith
mostly of Middle Eastern Arabs is also incorrect; this population
represents only 15% of the world's representation of Islam. He
said that those who follow this religion believe that the killing
of one individual is the same as killing all humans on Earth.
In another related part of his talk, he said that Islam allows
for defense against attack but that this is to be focused on the
specific perpetrator(s) and not to involve innocents who are not
directly involved in the offense.
M. Eissa continued
with other challenges to the public perception of Islam, such
as the inequality between the sexes. He stated that stories we
see on the treatment of women in Afganistan reflect that particular
culture rather than the dictates of Islam itself. He acknowledged
that there is a greater inheritance that is left to male offspring
but that this is because men are more responsible for financial
leadership and burdens in a given household and is also indicative
of the respect toward women that Muslim men hold. He explained
that a Muslim male can marry a non-Muslim but a Muslim woman is
forbidden to marry a non-Muslim man. Somehow, in this egalitarian
faith as presented to us, the man is considered the head of the
house; therefore it is assumed that a Muslim woman will be subsumed
by a non-Muslim man but the Muslim man will direct his household
in accordance with his faith, nullifying the faith of the female.
And he stated
that, in Islam, there is no difference seen in belief in the Torah,
the Bible or the Qur'an. All believe in the Creator; the one God,
and all follow their Holy books. All are brothers and created
by the same God. One must be a good neighbor no matter the faith
of those living near him. People of the Islamic faith believe
that the Prophet Mohammed received the word of God (Allah) from
the angel Gabriel and transmitted these divine messages to his
people. This was all compiled into what would become the Qur'an.
This book contains, according to Eissa, not only the practices
and rituals of the Islamic faith but a complete system for life.
Next, our
speaker explained the Five Pillars of Islam. The first one is
that God is the Creator. The second deals with how a Muslim must
pray five times per day so as to form and retain a connection
with Allah. There is to be no eating at this time or any other
distractions and one must clean himself before prayer, since he
is "meeting with God." The third pillar involves charity-giving
to the needy. The Muslim saves, throughout the year, a percentage
of his income and this is donated to those less fortunate. The
fourth regards fasting during the holy month of Ramadan. There
is to be no war, except in self- defense and no sex as this time
stresses self- control in life. The idea with fasting at this
time is that if you are hungry yourself, you will have more empathy
for others who are hungry. Finally, the fifth pillar acknowledges
the pilgrimage to Mecca that every Muslim who is able to, is expected
to go on. One must be physically capable of the journey but also
financially able. One is to accrue no debt in the pilgrimage to
this sacred place of Islam.
Eissa drew
a distinction between God as a Creator as opposed to a "Maker."
To make is to manufacture out of available resources, whereas
God creates out of nothing in a divine fiat. He discussed the
eye-for-an-eye mentality of Islam, in particular the well- publicized
practice of amputating a hand of a thief or the head of a murderer.
But he noted that there is a very low crime rate among people
of this faith. He also mentioned the condoned practices of stoning
and whipping. Regarding the latter, he said that it was not intended
for the whip to cut the flesh and cause injury but rather to humiliate
the wrong-doer. Likewise Qur'anic law permits the beating of a
wife by a husband but our speaker was quick to point out that
the practice involves a piece of wood no larger than a toothbrush,
and again not intended to cause corporeal harm so much as spiritual
correction.
He spoke about
how God knows more about you than you know yourself and so the
Muslim has acceptance of all things, since they are allowed or
willed by God. Everything that will come to pass has been recorded
already. When a tragedy befalls a follower of Islam, s/he is to
thank God for it. At this time he gave a personal account of an
instance of delayed success. If he had graduated "on time"
he would have been thrust into a time when his training was not
marketable. But when he did graduate, the timing was right for
success. He feels this was God's will. This is reminiscent for
many religious skeptics of people who survive some event that
takes the lives of most others. They praise God for this, but
fail to consider why God did not intervene on behalf of all the
other equally deserving people who perished in the event. In a
sort of "all good things come to those who wait" idea,
he said that God is with the person who is patient. He also equated
suffering as a time to be thankful for the suffering takes away
the sins in life. If one has suffered long in the mortal plane,
he will be all the more richly rewarded in the next life.
In the discussion
portion it was asked if there was any atonement concept as is
seen in Christianity with Jesus dying on the cross for the sins
of humanity. No, the sinner is punished directly for his own sins;
there is no savior figure acting as a scapegoat.
Asked if there
were differing interpretations of the Qur'an leading to different
sects as with Christianity and the Bible. Mr. Eissa explained
that one is to study the Qur'an in the original Arabic and if
one does this he will not have a multiplicity of interpretations.
Even one who is illiterate will be given "credit" for
trying to learn the writings in the original language.
Regarding
the Muslim suicide bombers, he said that when one is under-equipped
against transgressors this is a means to even the odds. The Muslim
who commits suicide in the cause of his faith knows he will be
rewarded in the hereafter. When other political issues were brought
up, our presenter said that Islam like anything can be politicized
but groups making this faith political are not following Islam
as they should.
After taking
about suffering, the scale of good and bad deeds to be weighed
on the Day of Judgment, etc., it was asked how this works with
infant mortality. He responded that infants get essentially a
"free pass" into heaven since they are before the age
of culpability and have not sinned. Interestingly, he further
noted that these heaven-bound babies may serve as advocates for
their parents after they die, testifying on their behalf.
After the
attacks on the U.S. a year ago, there was much made of the 72
dark-eyed houris who will avail themselves to the martyred Muslim
man. Why a given number in an eternity? What about the rewards
of the female? It was asked what happens after the virgins are
no longer maidens. We were informed that in Paradise they are
restored to untouched purity again. As with fundamentalist Christianity,
there seemed to be a lot of just-so explanations given to make
"sense" of the holy teachings.
He was asked
about how he reconciles the vilification of non-Muslims in the
Qur'an with what he had said earlier. He told us that this was
regarding a different place and time and under different circumstances.
Unlike the Crusades and other Christian led conquests, there is
no concept of forcing others to become Muslim in Islam.
Eissa was
perplexed by the wording of an animal rights advocate member who
asked how Islam regarded the killing of "non- human animals."
When he translated this in his own mind to simply "animals",
he said that there is no admonition against the slaughtering of
animals for food except with the pig. He expanded on this to say
that one can take a fish for the purpose of eating it but not
to place in a bowl. One must not kill simply for sport or amusement.
Asked about
the term "jihad", he explained that this meant a struggle
against Satan. Jihad is simply following God's rules. Qur'anic
scholars, however, often point out textual evidence that "jihad"
is meant as "an armed struggle against the unbelievers."
Just one such example is: "Kill those who join other gods
with God wherever you may find them." (IV.76).
What is the
Muslim view of the divinity of Jesus? Islam does not believe in
a God that takes the form of a man that can be tortured and killed
or suffer other insults to the flesh. This is a "limiting"
view of a limitless entity.
At one point
in the Q & A, he explained that the good of all religious
and secular institutions are all found in the Qur'an. The concepts
inherent in the Bill of Rights being one example he asserted.
With all the
emphasis on destruction and death for the infidel we were perhaps
fortunate to leave this meeting intact. "Believers! Make
war on the infidels who dwell around you; let them find harshness
in you." (ix.123). "When you meet the unbeliever in
the battlefield, strike off their heads and when you have laid
them low, bind your captives firmly." (x1vii.4-15). "Make
war on the unbelievers and the hypocrites. Be harsh with them.
Their ultimate abode is hell, a hapless journey's end." (ix.73).
The basest creatures in the sight of Allah, are the faithless
who will not believe." (8:55). "I will instill terror
into the hearts of the Infidels; strike off their heads then,and
strike off from them every fingertip." (8:12). As to the
brotherhood between the Follower of the Torah, the Bible and Qur'an
mentioned earlier: "Believers, do not take Jews or Christians
as friends. They are but one another's friends. If anyone of you
takes them for his friends, then he is surely one of them. God
will not guide evil-doers." (5:51). "Believers, do not
take as your friends the infidels or those who received the Scriptures
before you (Jews and Christians)…" (5:56-64).
Secretary:
Charles LaRue.
|
