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Freethought Association of West Michigan;

Meeting minutes for April 14, 1999; #44.

Frank B. shared with us his experiences from his trip to the recent

American Atheists convention and updated us on the organization, now

headed by Ellen Johnson.

Walt V. told of his odyssey regarding his continuing struggle to get

"controversial" books into the public library system. He was featured in

the Grand Rapids Press over this debacle.

Or joint e-mail discussion list (recently merged with The Great Lakes

Humanists) topic has lately been on the legality of prayer rallies on

city property. A discussion group member told of a National Prayer

Around the Flagpole to occur at the City Hall in her town of South

Haven, MI on May 6th. It turns out that the city is involved only in

issuing a permit. However, this opens the door for any group (Wiccan,

Atheist, etc.) to do likewise; failure to garner a permit could result

in a lawsuit.

Ben Ingebretson moderated our topic on Civility. He began by telling us

of his experiences in densely populated India, and in particular of the

phenomena of buses jam-packed, with riders atop, hanging out windows and

even positioned in a semi-crouch (neither sitting nor standing), which

he demonstrated. He made use of this vehicle metaphorically as masses of

people all travelling together; how we are all riding together on a

journey. He was struck by the high level of civility that was maintained

in such crowded conditions and contrasted this with our own experiences

here, citing as a possible reason for the difference, the

individualistic nature of our country-- each going his/her own way. This

can lead to disunity and choas. He talked about the diversity we

experience but how we tend to, instead of celebrating or learning more

about differences, instead categorize groups dualistically; i.e.:

Black/White, Liberal/Conservative, Affluent/Poor, Labor/Management, and

so on. He mentioned how new paradigms need to focus on dialogue to find

common ground rather than highlighting differences in our journey

together.

On a sheet Ben passed out, he defined civility as "...the sum of

sacrifices we make for the sake of sharing the same space." Also on this

sheet, he listed five sub-topics related to civility; asking why

civiity?, giving examples of what civility is and is not, what promotes

civility and how we might civilize our culture.

In saying what civility is NOT, he raised some interesting and somewhat

surprising, at first, examples such as: liking, ignoring or failing to

criticize, wearing a muzzle, social pacifism,and absence of passion in

one's own convictions. Ben made good points about how civility is not

about passively and quietly getting through, surrendering one's beliefs

without engaging those whom one has disagreements with in the belief

that this will maintain harmony.

Gandhi and M.L. King were mentioned for their ability to moblize people

effectively by their non-violent, yet head on example.

The fear of risk- taking was cited as an impediment to civility. We have

to risk the chance that there may be alterations to our own worldview

when when we investigate another 's way of looking at things and there

is risk simply in engaging others in the first place. However, it was

also mentioned how difficult it is to demonize the individual or

caracaturize his/her beliefs when we actually have meaningful

face-to-face discourse.

Ben mentioned how we need to take the time to really make sure we

understand the other person's position. It is easy to label other people

and positions prejudicially; painting them with a large brush when we do

not take the time to examine what has shaped their thoughts. We were

encouraged to "think out of the box" and not lump people into groups;

see what each person brings to the table as well as being aware of our

own "baggage" and influences.

He maintained the importance of knowing your own weaknesses so you can

be better prepared when your buttons are being pushed. He said to allow

yourself the freedom to disagree with issues raised but without

disallowing the personhood of the other; not "attacking their autonomous

will."

Ben did not hold himself out as always exemplifying these approaches to

civility but recommended practice in this mode of thinking to bridge

areas of divisiveness and hostility.

Upcomimg meeting topics are: "What is a Bigot?" to be moderated by

Howard Foster on April 28. On May 12, Dirk Nebbeling will moderate

"Humanism and Spirituality." These will be at the Wyoming Public

Library, 3350 Michael S.W., Wyoming, MI, at 7PM.

You are encouraged to suggest topics and moderate any you are willing to

as well. Our new postal mail address is PO Box 9873, Wyoming, MI

49509-0873. Remember to check our website: http://members.aol.com.

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>From Forbidden Fruit by Paul Kurtz: "The fair-minded person will be

tolerant of other lifestyles and will respect the right of others to be

different. Though we may disagree with or find odd or offensive others'

values, tastes, beliefs or practices, so long as they do no harm to

others or impose on them, he will forbear. He will accord to other

individuals the same rights he asks for himself, and though he may

criticize and/or persuade, he will not seek to stamp out, denigrate, or

suppress other styles of life, points of view or value systems."

"This, Gandhi declared, is one of the virtues of Satyagraha [or love

force]: it uncovers concealed motives and reveals the truth. It puts the

best possible interpretation on the opponent's intentions and thereby

gives him another chance to discard baser impulses. If he fails to do

so, his victims see more clearly and feel more intensely, whle outsiders

realize who is wrong." From The Life of Mahatma Gandhi by Louis Fisher.